Jack's Back, Baby! (1565 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 1.06 on 46 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Razor <Jeremy_21117.at.hotmail.com> (View user info) at 2007-06-01 11:07:35 EDT
In case you missed it in the news, America's favorite assisted suicide doctor, the erstwhile Doctor Jack Kevorkian, is out on parole.
Will his release spark more debate about assisted suicide?
Here's hoping so... the laws on our books today are absolutely barbaric.
The right to die should really be as fundamental to us as our right to live. I believe it is a civil right every bit as important as abortion.
I have been witness to a family member wasting away from Lou Gehrig's disease (the disease the suicidal patient had that landed Kevorkian in jail). While the issue of assisted suicide did not come up for my family, watching what this disease does to someone is more than enough to convince me that someone might want to die with a little dignity and functionality still left to them before spending weeks to months lying in a bed completely unable to move or communicate in any fashion. It was like seeing someone put in solitary confinement for a month leading up to their execution.
I see this as a freedom issue... opponents use an array of arguments from saying it's immoral or against Jesus to saying that insurance companies will use that option to pressure old people into committing suicide to save money. Something tells me Blue Cross isn't going to risk the bad press.
Anyway, I am curious as to the opinions of other Ubersiters... this may actually be one topic that we haven't beaten to death six times over.
User Reviews
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-06-04 09:03:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2007-06-02 23:03:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fly into Meccah. Straight into a building, surrounded by a crowd of millions, each one willing to die to protect it yet still helpless to stop it. What better way to go out in a blaze of glory?
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it is next to impossible for a kaffir to get anywhere near an airplane in Saudi close enough to the mecca to bash it.
Good idea though.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2007-06-04 00:25:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2007-06-02 23:03:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:14:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've already had the discussion with my wife, and while she adamantly disagrees (and I don't care), I've already decided that if (more likely when) I get a terminal disease I'm going out in a blaze of glory.
I haven't decided how just yet, any suggestions?
In a discussion with a freind of mine we decided it would be pretty bad ass to take a private plane and continue to buzz the capital and whitehouse until they dispatch a sqaud of F-15's to shoot you down. A missle has got to be pretty quick and painless, right?
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Fly into Meccah. Straight into a building, surrounded by a crowd of millions, each one willing to die to protect it yet still helpless to stop it. What better way to go out in a blaze of glory?
Submitted by Still-Life (user info) at 2007-06-02 22:19:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2007-06-01 15:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:45:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i guess that's why it would be tough to regulate this because for every mentally debilatating disease out there we'd have to have a standard for at which point the patient has crossed the line. Think about it, even folks with Parkinsons, Alzheimers and what not have days of lucidity.
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I agree, it is a sticky issue...but generally with Parkinson's it effects the motor system before it begins effecting mental capacity. It is possible to estimate when this will occur and then follow up later on.
With Alzheimer's the issue is harder to solve...Alzheimer's does lead to dementia, but the primary causes of dementia, such as loss of memory, attention and language do not change the mental ability of the individual, he/she will still have the ability for rational thought and such...in some cases however, dementia can lead to a decreased ability of problem solving skills...but that in and of itself does not mean a loss of human-like cognitive function.
I would have to talk to a neurologist to be able to learn in more detail about the diseases, but my main point remains unaltered...diseases that effect the physical body only should not lead to euthanasia and I think that the issue is most relevant for mental disorders.
The main possibility that I could think of would be for progressive scans to be done of the brain to quantify the neuronal loss during the disease or something to that effect.
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I'm fairly certain that the problem here is not being physically crippled, it's the general path and the complete inability to recover.
Either way, you should be able to end yourself if you want to. It's your body, its your life. If you're in the position to end it.. more power to you. Not a single person on this earth should be able to govern over you like that.
Submitted by LongestPants (user info) at 2007-06-02 21:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Front line infantry.
Submitted by DonovanMD (user info) at 2007-06-02 21:25:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-06-02 12:40:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Jack had a black baby? Jill isn't going to be happy.
Submitted by BranDo (user info) at 2007-06-02 10:06:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Coming from a country where it's almost 'normal' to have doctors in with active euthanasia I can't believe the sometimes narrow minded rules and laws of the USA.
My brother died 2 years ago suffering from ALS and he was guided through his last days to have at least a little bit of a dignified death. I'm glad that they helped him die.
Abortion is also something that has to be decided by the involved individual itself and not by some half-assed law.
Good thing to bring this up.
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-06-01 23:19:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 15:18:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
scientific language scientific language scientific language scientific language scientific language
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i totally agree bob
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2007-06-01 15:02:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:45:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i guess that's why it would be tough to regulate this because for every mentally debilatating disease out there we'd have to have a standard for at which point the patient has crossed the line. Think about it, even folks with Parkinsons, Alzheimers and what not have days of lucidity.
__________________
I agree, it is a sticky issue...but generally with Parkinson's it effects the motor system before it begins effecting mental capacity. It is possible to estimate when this will occur and then follow up later on.
With Alzheimer's the issue is harder to solve...Alzheimer's does lead to dementia, but the primary causes of dementia, such as loss of memory, attention and language do not change the mental ability of the individual, he/she will still have the ability for rational thought and such...in some cases however, dementia can lead to a decreased ability of problem solving skills...but that in and of itself does not mean a loss of human-like cognitive function.
I would have to talk to a neurologist to be able to learn in more detail about the diseases, but my main point remains unaltered...diseases that effect the physical body only should not lead to euthanasia and I think that the issue is most relevant for mental disorders.
The main possibility that I could think of would be for progressive scans to be done of the brain to quantify the neuronal loss during the disease or something to that effect.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-06-01 15:02:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
send em to Iraq
Submitted by Lugalug (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:58:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree. Person's decision. One of those issues where one incident will ruin it, so of course nobody can do it.
Submitted by Susie_Derkins (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:55:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
We love our pets enough to put them to sleep when they're suffering. I think we should extend our human loved ones the same courtesy.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:45:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i guess that's why it would be tough to regulate this because for every mentally debilatating disease out there we'd have to have a standard for at which point the patient has crossed the line. Think about it, even folks with Parkinsons, Alzheimers and what not have days of lucidity.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:41:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:39:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you make a decent enough point bob, but at that point in those diseases wouldn't you be mentally unfit to make the call thus making it murder anyway?
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Well the decision would have to be made before the disease progresses enough to effect the mental stability of the person, thats why I stated that it should be done to prevent the loss of conscious, rational thought.
Obviously someone who has already been mentally altered by the disease cannot make the decision.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:39:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you make a decent enough point bob, but at that point in those diseases wouldn't you be mentally unfit to make the call thus making it murder anyway?
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2007-06-01 14:31:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I tend to only support assisted suicide for a disease that disrupts you mentally, not physically.
If I had some advanced form of cancer...I would rather feel horrible pain than enter nothingness.
But if someone has Parkinson's and they will no longer be able to think rationally, or have abstract thoughts at all...then I believe that it should be allowed so that the person's humanity (consciousness) is not stripped from them.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2007-06-01 13:43:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
THE BEETIS HAS YOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pod4jIKT_kA
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2007-06-01 13:07:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
"If the man falling from the roof of the building is shot without it being a request, then he was murdered because he was denied some portion of his life. If, however, he was screaming to be shot as he fell, then it is NOT murder."
Not true, if someone on the walks up to you on the street, hands you a gun and a note that says:
"I am sick of life and I want it to end, please kill me now"
And you shoot him, that is murder. The same applies to the guy falling off the roof.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:56:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Only in terminal cases or cases of untreatable, unending pain. Obviously.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:55:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Kevorkian was released because his health is failing. His next suicide may be his own.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:55:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I agree with you.
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:41:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
agreed
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:34:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"The example they use in law school is of the man falling from the roof of a 20-story building who is shot dead as he passes the second floor window. He was deprived of .05 seconds (or whatever) of his life and so he was murdered, regardless of the fact that he would have died immediately upon impact. Substitute 'terminal disease" for fall and that's why they call it murder."
I think this analogy falls apart upon closer examination, and these law school professors need to think it through.
If the man falling from the roof of the building is shot without it being a request, then he was murdered because he was denied some portion of his life. If, however, he was screaming to be shot as he fell, then it is NOT murder.
Consider the people who on 9/11 jumped from windows rather than burn to death. One could argue that they committed suicide, but I don't think it's that simple. Faced with the prospect of inevitable termination, they chose a less painful way of dying.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:10:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
The example they use in law school is of the man falling from the roof of a 20-story building who is shot dead as he passes the second floor window. He was deprived of .05 seconds (or whatever) of his life and so he was murdered, regardless of the fact that he would have died immediately upon impact. Substitute 'terminal disease" for fall and that's why they call it murder.
When my car is broken, I fix it or pay an expert to do it. If it cannot be fixed, or if I decide that the extreme effort required to fix it will not bring it back to a sufficiently useful condition, I scrap it and move on. If I am able to make a rational decision should my body suffer a similar fate, I will weigh the options and decide: get the experts to try to fix me, or let me go to the scrapyard. It should be in my hands, not those of the doctor, the hospital, or any government entity.
However, the government is made up of people who think that their personal agenda is what's best for you, and that is rarely "allow The People to make up their own minds about important things". That's what has to change. The way to legislate it is to have each person decide and write out what they consider to be a sufficient quality of life to warrant their remaining in it. That way, if they have reached a point where they feel that there is no reasonable expectation of maintaining that quality of life, they can show current and previous rational thought behind their decision to end their life at that point, and do so with dignity.
This will remove a large burden from medical facilities and government agencies, lower the tax burden on the average taxpayer, add years if not decades to Social Security's ability to pay benefits, and spark new industries catering to last wishes. <insert pre-emptive Soylent Green joke here>
How I live my life is by my choice. I have the inalienable Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - says so in the Constitution. If I can clearly see that the quality of my existence has deteriorated to the point that I no longer can expect to pursue Happiness or enjoy the benefits of my Liberty, I think it is certainly within my Rights to end my life before my continued existence interferes with the Rights of those who would be tasked with tending me. For my family and friends, for their memory of me; it's the respectful thing to do.
Submitted by wookie (user info) at 2007-06-01 12:09:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Death penalty--legal. Abortion--legal. Assisted suicide--not legal. Go figure.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:46:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
P.S. Oregon has legalized assisted suicide. Hawaii and a couple other places it failed by only a few votes in legislature, and it looks like next election cycle in California it's going to be on a referendum open to public voting. Those nutty Californians.
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:45:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Why is it morally wrong?
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:34:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Assisted suicide is murder in the eyes of the law, and while I can see how it could be construed that way, the law has allowed morality get in the way of what is best for the people.
While it may be morally wrong, it serves a purpose. I have the right to suffer as well as the right to not suffer. Given the different circumstances, these people would have killed themselves without help from another person. If you can bring yourself to do it when you're sick, you can do it when you're well. It has that kind of universal permanency.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:24:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I would have, had she asked me.
Submitted by The_Drake (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:24:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This guy is a blessing. It takes one "radical" thinker to start a wave.
If he was allowed to flourish, then there could be suicide booths, like in futurama.
Kidding aside, there is a real place for this kind of work, it's not pretty, but it is, in my opinion essential in a world that is basically falling apart at the seams. If you don't have the means to go out in a dignified way, these people can help ease the pain of your last days. It's not murder if they ask you to help them die.
Submitted by professorfuckface (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:21:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:19:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My mom fought cancer for 5 years, suffering the whole time until she was gone.
She supported a right-to-die organization, and as far as I'm concerned, it would have been her fundamental right to choose to end her suffering, had she chosen to.
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should have manned up, faggot
Submitted by Antioxident (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:21:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by c1ndy (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:20:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think everyone should have the right to die, but its such a grey area- however would you legislate it.
I predict that more European countries will adopt the same sort of policy as switzerland (right to die with lots of checks). I don't think they will ever legalise it in the USA because people seem so afraid of being sued.
Submitted by Sacrilicious (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:19:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My mom fought cancer for 5 years, suffering the whole time until she was gone.
She supported a right-to-die organization, and as far as I'm concerned, it would have been her fundamental right to choose to end her suffering, had she chosen to.
Submitted by Director (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:16:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Day-uuum Adam. That's a GREAT idea. It'd be over in a flash, and you'd be forever in the history books to boot.
Submitted by sexualchocolate1984 (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:15:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Mark me down as pro-suicide (of any kind)
Compulsory for teh gheys.
Submitted by EmoJean (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:15:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
we should have the choice.
my grandfather made the choice to stop going to dialysis. of course he had no working kidneys so he needed no help but you get the idea. He went out when he was ready to go out, can you ask for more?
Submitted by BobLobla (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:14:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
While I agree that in some cases doctor assisted suicide is a good thing, the methods that Dr. Death employed were pretty brutal. He would also leave patients in hotel rooms and dump them outside of ERs. If it is going to be done it should be done by a psycho like him.
Submitted by professorfuckface (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:14:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
these fucking jews and their bullshit
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:14:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I've already had the discussion with my wife, and while she adamantly disagrees (and I don't care), I've already decided that if (more likely when) I get a terminal disease I'm going out in a blaze of glory.
I haven't decided how just yet, any suggestions?
In a discussion with a freind of mine we decided it would be pretty bad ass to take a private plane and continue to buzz the capital and whitehouse until they dispatch a sqaud of F-15's to shoot you down. A missle has got to be pretty quick and painless, right?
Submitted by Director (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:12:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I live in Michigan and was here when old Jack was locked away.
It's infuriating. NOBODY has the right to tell anyone else how to live, so long as they're not hurting anyone else, or how to die. Locking someone away for murder is one thing. Locking them away for ending the suffering of a consenting adult is something else entirely.
Should I ever contract a painful, terminal illness, as soon as my own capability to live as a normal human being goes, I'm outta here. No since wasting resources, and wearing the emotions of every single friend and family member I have down to a nub.
Fucking politicians and religious freaks should all be fucking shot.
Submitted by DeathJester (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:10:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Most heated by 1700 BST
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-06-01 11:09:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Give Dr. Jack Oathmeal's email and phone number, pronto.